[00:00:10] Speaker: All right. And welcome, everybody. This is Matt Ryan to All Roads Lead to Real Estate. And I have a very special guest with me today, someone that I've actually already recorded podcasts with. How long ago was that? It might have been almost a year ago now. And it was, I thought, a rather good podcast. I hope you liked it. And we ended up having to trash it. And it was kind of sad, wasn't it? All that work.

[00:00:40] Speaker: Yeah. So it was kind of sad, but we had to do it because of attorney recommendations. And so so welcome back, should I say. So the highlights, just to let everyone know who I'm speaking to, this is Alfred Chestnut. And Alfred is one of three that was involved in a wrongful incarceration.

[00:00:59] Speaker: that is it's just it's just crazy when you read about it and learn more about it that the three of you have the largest wrongful conviction case in American history. Yeah. And it's one hundred and eight years of wrongful incarceration for murder. And it happened here in Baltimore, Maryland. And it's it's just crazy. And so why we can finally rerecord this podcast and actually

[00:01:25] Speaker: put this out there is because you finally had your settlement and finally that that court procedure that took years is finally behind you. You were convicted at age 16 and at age 16 you spent the next 36 years of your life until you were 52 years of age

[00:01:47] Speaker: behind bars for something that you didn't do. There was no real evidence ever produced to even suggest that you did it. And yet you were able to do it. And I've been able to know you. That's why this podcast is interesting, because I've learned of you and with you through real estate. Right. And so I've been able to help you start investment portfolio. And through that, that's how I've learned your story. And

[00:02:14] Speaker: That's that should never happen. It's just it should never happen to anybody. Yeah, it's just crazy. So I want to start with I think the best way to start is just kind of understand a little bit about where where you were born and raised and what was the earliest portion of your childhood. That's where I want to go. I want to start back at the foundation.

[00:02:35] Speaker: we had much, you know, like everybody else, but in, and you were born here in Baltimore, right? Yeah. Yup. And the way things are now or not the way way of way I grew up, you know, as far as being a kid.

[00:02:51] Speaker: The kids grew up today, they don't have nowhere to play. I mean, we came up with ideas of how to have fun. The things that they have now, we didn't have these technology and all that type of stuff even back then. We had a little, but not a lot.

[00:03:11] Speaker: I can remember as far as like seven, eight years old. My cousin and them used to live like across the street from us growing up. And that was that was like what street did he grow up on? That was in somewhere near like Rice Tower Road. OK. And in between somewhere like a little further up, maybe in the street name was it was called Billa, Billa Avenue.

[00:03:39] Speaker: So would you consider a pretty happy childhood? Was it pretty normal from what you can remember? Yeah, I was happy. Like I said, we didn't have much, but my mom was a single mom at that time, too. And we survived all, you know, she took care of us. How many brothers and sisters did you have? I had two sisters and three brothers. Yeah, it was five of us all together.

[00:04:10] Speaker: As you're growing up in the area, I mean, obviously no one expects to go through what you went through, but as you, Demi, do you remember what kind of led up to those events? And I've read quite a bit about it now, just kind of reliving a little bit of your life's journey.

[00:04:28] Speaker: And I know you've had to re-go through this because of the trial and everything else and all the court proceedings. And all this happened in 1983, November of 1983. And how old were you then? I was 16. You were 16. And so from what I can understand, you were 16 years old and the

[00:04:51] Speaker: I mean, I guess just in your words, how did that day, do you remember the day at all? Does that come back into your mind just as your point of view of going back then? I remember like yesterday. Yeah. I remember the police.

[00:05:07] Speaker: questioning us at that age without our parents, our attorney, they questioned us. They took us down Central Station and questioned us. We ain't had nothing to hide. We told them the truth from the beginning. We ain't had nothing to worry about.

[00:05:34] Speaker: until they arrest us. Yeah, you thought you were just going down there to answer a few questions and that'd be the end of it. That'd be the end of that.

[00:05:44] Speaker: Uh, DeWitt was our friend. So yes, yeah, we was concerned about what happened to him too. Yeah. So your friend, so you were 16. He was two years younger. He was 14. And so from what I can understand, uh, your 14 year old friend was in Harlem park middle school, walking down the hallway and some, somebody murdered him to take his starter jacket, right? Yeah. So it was pretty, pretty straightforward. And then.

[00:06:14] Speaker: the police came and wanted to investigate and what, less than a week later, they had said, we've solved the case, we're all done. Yeah, pretty much. And it was like, it was like a nightmare to me for real, because when they came to get me, all they had to do is walk right across the street and arrest me. I lay right across the street from the police station. No way.

[00:06:41] Speaker: That's crazy, right? So you saw the police station every day? Every day.

[00:06:47] Speaker: I guess you've, you've obviously learned a lot about that day, but from your point of view, you, if you just had a friend that got murdered, it was the first murder in a public school in Baltimore's history. Yeah. So I imagine the police really wanted to settle this quickly. Yeah. Solve the case. Let's solve that case quickly. And the thing about it is it's like, um, you know, I went to Highland Park, I went to Highland Park and, um,

[00:07:14] Speaker: I used to go in holla park all the time, like to visit old teachers and stuff like that. I should have been in school. Yeah. But you know how that is, you know? And I never had any problems because everybody know me. Yeah. You know what I mean? Why would I do something like that? Like, I wasn't even brought up that way to do something like that. And so you and your two friends were cutting school that day. Is that right?

[00:07:45] Speaker: Well, I had got expelled from school. Basically, I had got expelled from school. I was going to Calverton. And I had got expelled. And just so happened, you know, like any regular teenager, they out, they out, they having fun. You know, I was just roaming the street in my old neighborhood to see my my co-defenders, whatever, my friends. And

[00:08:14] Speaker: just decided one day my brother, I woke up in the morning and my brother, I had a starter jacket. My mom's bought us two starter jackets. My brother had a Michiganite and a Georgetown jacket.

[00:08:30] Speaker: That day, you know, civilians always, you know, civilians share clothes. Me and my younger brother, we share clothes. And just that morning, he asked me, could he wear my jacket? I said, no. But he wore it anyway. And that kind of upset me. And, you know, and I told my mother about it. And she was like, because, you know, she said, don't go inside that school.

[00:08:58] Speaker: She told me not to. But I went in there. I wasn't going in there to start anything or, you know, nothing like that. I just went in there to get my jacket from my brother. And that's what I told the teachers when I was looking for them. You know, even the teachers knew. It's just crazy, man, like how

[00:09:20] Speaker: from, from going inside there and then leaving, um, uh, the security guard even saw us that day, um, like round like 1230. Who is us? Um, me, it was like five of us that was inside the school that day. Okay. And, um, but none of you went there anymore. It's just, you were just there. Yeah. Yeah. And, um,

[00:09:45] Speaker: The security guard saw us, and he asked each and every one of us why we weren't in school when I told him. But he was telling us, he said that we had to clear the premises. We was on the basketball court, and he told us that we had to clear the premises.

[00:10:02] Speaker: And we left with no problems. Like we didn't give them no, no problem or nothing like that. And we went to my house and they take no, no more than 15 minutes to get from Highland Park to, from Highland Park to Mount Street. And it don't take no more than 15 minutes, just walking. Right. And by the time I got there,

[00:10:23] Speaker: my mom was getting out of the car. She had went to the market and all five of us helped my mom put the bags in the house and stuff like that. And I remember it so well because it was like one o'clock.

[00:10:39] Speaker: And when I stepped in the house, I don't know if you remember, like back in the day, it used to show the one o'clock movie on Channel 45 with the Captain Chesapeake and all that. Right after Captain Chesapeake goes off TV, the one o'clock movie come on.

[00:11:00] Speaker: You know, I remember this stuff. I remember all this stuff. So like clockwork. And then in the area that I used to live, back in the day, you used to always hear a siren go off. On the exact time, like one o'clock on the dot, it always went off. I think they was doing something down in the harbor or they, I think a pepper mill, they had a pepper mill,

[00:11:30] Speaker: Company or something down there and I guess during the time them or bricks or something like that. They blow that horn and you can hear it all across the city and And you remember it that day. Yeah, I remember that and

[00:11:45] Speaker: That's how I know it was one o'clock It's crazy, man So I had happened to just why the Bible's in the house in the house and stuff and fun around I went on and because like me I was a teenager but I like girls and

[00:12:08] Speaker: I used to chase girls like with any other teenager dude. I had changed my clothes and everything. Went into the corner store and got something and came back in. And then we had left. We left my mom's house and went up to my old school up Calverton. When I went up there, I seen like three or four police cars up there.

[00:12:36] Speaker: I've never seen that before. That's why I thought that something must have happened somewhere else or something. While I was out there, I saw my principal, and he was asking me why I wasn't in school. And I told him what happened, and he told me whether the vice principal shouldn't have expelled me for just being in the hallway or whatever, right? He shouldn't have. Is that what happened? You were expelled. How many days prior or how long earlier did you get expelled?

[00:13:06] Speaker: I didn't even had a chance to get a chance to get back in school because he told me that day to have my mother call and bring me to school that following week and he would bring me back to school. Get me enrolled back to school. So you weren't out of school that long? No. Okay. No short. Yeah.

[00:13:31] Speaker: Before you know it, I got arrested for this. And it's it's crazy. And so the evidence that they said they had was just eyewitness, right? It was that's that's that was the evidence they said that they had. They had witnesses saying that they saw us that day inside the school and then they saw me shoot and ransom and Andrew, you know,

[00:13:59] Speaker: grab them and shoot them. And I mean, they say and I shot him in that Ransom and Andrew holder. And I'm saying to myself, like, it don't take no three people to do something like that. You know, it don't take no three people to do something like that to to somebody. But and knowing the wit, I know the wit.

[00:14:22] Speaker: ain't the type of person that would like fight you back for, you know, if you got a gun on him or something like that. He'd have just given you the jacket. He probably would have just gave it to you. Yeah. You know what I mean? He wasn't that type of person. Yeah. So basically, from what I can read and understand, it's like you had one eyewitness that was, I think she was 14 as well, right? At the time. Yeah. And so she came forward and she decided to

[00:14:50] Speaker: you know, basically the police gave her an ultimatum that you're going to either give us somebody to all of them, right? We need somebody or your life is going to be hell to every, every last one of them. And you know,

[00:15:05] Speaker: the whole time that I was incarcerated, going to trial and stuff, that was like a nightmare to me to sit there and listen to someone just lie on you and say that you did something, knowing you didn't do it, you wasn't even there. And to hear it coming out of their mouths, and I'm saying to myself, who made them say that? And the police made them say that about us.

[00:15:36] Speaker: They were kids too. At one time I was angry at them, but then I realized it's not their fault because they were children just like we were. I've been forgave them a long time ago. During my whole incarceration, I've been forgave them.

[00:16:02] Speaker: No, I believe you. Now that I know you, I can understand that that is definitely true. But but getting back to that day, so they interrogated you that exact day, the day of the murder. Was it a couple of days after? It was like, you see, on a certain.

[00:16:19] Speaker: I can remember it because they came around my co-defendant's home. And so Ransom's brother came around the corner and called us. We came to the corner. He said that, you know, the detectives

[00:16:36] Speaker: they want to question you all about the incident that happened in the school. And based on the fact that we was inside the school that day. And I had my Georgetown jacket on that day. It's crazy. And then when it came out, if I did something like that, why would I? I had all the opportunity in the world not to go in front of the police officers. They were still in the house.

[00:17:05] Speaker: Why would I walk right in front of them with demands? If I killed my friend for his job, Sarah Jackie, why would I walk in front of him in the police face like that? I must be really bold. Yeah. A bold and evil person.

[00:17:22] Speaker: to do something like that, you know, that that that will be the type of person that actually would be bold enough to walk in front of the police with with the murder jacket on. Sure. That that don't make sense. And then

[00:17:38] Speaker: They just said they wanted to arrest us, but they wanted to question us. So I didn't have a problem with it. Did they ask you, do you want to wait till you have parents or do you want to get you an attorney? Did they say anything like that? No, no. They asked us what we were willing to go down Central and I said yes.

[00:17:59] Speaker: Ransom brother was a little older than us. And the guy that we was talking to, he was a friend of ours named Craig. He was a little older than us too. So they asked, could they go with us down there?

[00:18:14] Speaker: So while we're getting in the car, you know, the cars that they drove back back in the day, they called them knocker cars because they're so small and they look they regular cars and they dress plain clothed and all that type of stuff. And we've got in the car barely can fit in there. So I had to sit on I had to sit on his knee. And while we're getting in the car,

[00:18:42] Speaker: The police, one of the detectives turned around. He said, you kill that boy for that jack? I said, no, this is my jack. I said, I ain't kill nobody for nothing. And he said, he was laughing. I'm just joking with you. The whole time, like, I didn't I don't I didn't know anything about the law or the same because I ain't never been in trouble.

[00:19:08] Speaker: I ain't never been to prison. I ain't never got locked up before. So when we drove down there, they questioned us. And I told them the truth. Yes, we was there, but we weren't in there when all that stuff happened. We weren't there. Yeah. What should you have said now that you know what you know? Should you have just said nothing and just said, I need to talk on attorney? Yeah, I would probably.

[00:19:32] Speaker: Yeah, I'm not going nowhere with y'all unless I got attorney or do you arrest me? Yeah, you know, I wouldn't have went with nowhere with him. But the 16 year old version didn't know anything. The 16 year old version of yourself, you just do answer everything the best you can. Yeah. Because the whip was my friend. So I didn't have a problem. Yeah. You know, yeah. And then a friend died. I'm not killing my friend. You know, he's my friend. Ask anybody. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:55] Speaker: What i learned about is the person that the lead detective that managed to put you away and build this case on you tell me about him and what is. What is come out about that man in this in the years after he's still in denial late late but he didn't know wrong.

[00:20:12] Speaker: He haven't apologized, he hasn't said anything. Has he ever been accused of this type of behavior before, where he quickly solved a crime and somebody got locked up? I have a, it's a guy named Wendell Griffin. He had his case, and I know Wendell Griffin from in the Maryland Penitentiary. I know Wendell Griffin. Still no justice, even for him. How many people do you think that you met

[00:20:40] Speaker: who might be in your shoes. It's a lot. While I was in prison, yeah. Ain't nobody gonna keep saying that for years, 40 years, keep saying he ain't did it. Come on, you didn't did the time, you didn't did the time. Like for me, 30 years,

[00:20:59] Speaker: And why keep on saying that if you did something, if you know you did it, why keep denying it? It been 30, 40 years now. Nah, my story has been the same from day one. I mean, I guess when did you really know your life at that point was changed forever? How did you know? Did they come back to your house and walk across the street and say that's it?

[00:21:28] Speaker: When they woke me up, all I saw was flashlights and they came in me and my brother. They flashed the flashlights on in my face and my younger brother didn't know what was going on. He was like scared, you know. When he came into my room, he basically was looking all around the room, wear the gun, wear the jacket at. I said, my jacket is in the closet and it was hanging up in the closet.

[00:21:57] Speaker: And then he gonna question me about the tennis shoes and shoes that I had in my room. Where you get all those tennis shoes and shoes that I got the bosses, like I'm a teenager, I was a teenager and you know,

[00:22:14] Speaker: I had my tennis shoes lined up all neat with the boxes, the shoes on the top of the boxes, you know, as if my mother couldn't afford to buy tennis shoes or whatever for me. You know, he questioned me about that. It's ridiculous, man. And then on top of that, I remember my mom told me to gather up all the clothes that I couldn't fit.

[00:22:44] Speaker: so that we can get them away. And they were sitting in a big old duffel bag, right? So I was trying to get good clothes to put on because I was in my underwear. I was trying to get clothes to put on. He told me to get dressed. He told me not that. The good clothes that, you know, to make it look like whatever they was putting on me, to make it look like I ain't had nothing. Like I was just a,

[00:23:09] Speaker: a person out to just rob people for clothes and whatever. Well, you have to fit the story. Yeah. Right. So he put me in some of the clothes. I remember a pair of jeans that

[00:23:25] Speaker: I had fell down and I ripped him, right? And I never put him back on. Put me in them jeans. He put me in those jeans and an old sweater jacket that I was going to get to, you know, put me in that. Made us look like we had, like I say, we had much

[00:23:46] Speaker: But my my mother took care of us. Sure. Real well, anything that I wanted in life, my moms will tell me like, I mean, I knew how to get stuff on my own and I had to rob nobody back then. Kids were civilized like they knew how to do so. I will help people with their bags. You know, old people would trust you to go to store for them and all that type of stuff. They give me some money to go get something. Yep.

[00:24:11] Speaker: Man, like, for real. Yeah. So it's like, that's the era I came out of. So I knew how to get things. I put stuff on layaway to get when I want. Yeah. Choose whatever. Yeah. I had to do that. I had to do that at all. I knew how to get stuff on my own. I remember in growing up, there's sometimes like we had no food on the table and some kind of way.

[00:24:36] Speaker: I will go out there and help people with their bags and I will bring food in the home and in the house. I was a kid. Yeah. Who does that a day? What kid does that? It's crazy. So so that that's the day that changed everything. And so you had one, you know, you had one person basically turn into three other people, teenage, like, I guess, 14 year olds. And the only evidence they had is they said, yep, that's the guy. That's it. And then the three of you get locked up.

[00:25:06] Speaker: and took my jacket saying that that was the wits. Right. And your mom had a receipt, didn't she? And she showed it to him. Had the receipt, had the man come and testify to that fact that I did buy two NBA jackets. He just didn't remember. The technology, I think, back then, and I think they could have even found it in the receipt by the numbers. All you got to do is go by the numbers on the receipt and it will bring up

[00:25:36] Speaker: that item or what type of item that it was.

[00:25:41] Speaker: And so now you're in prison and I mean, what was that like? You're 16 years old and they ship you off to an adult prison, right? This isn't some- Yeah, they didn't care. This wasn't some adolescent situation. They put you right in- In an adult prison. With the adults. With wolves and dragons. The Maryland Penitentiary was the most dangerous prison in the world back then. Wow.

[00:26:08] Speaker: when they sent us to city jail, from city jail to Dionysus. I didn't even stay in Dionysus long enough. Like for real, they shipped me over there within a couple of months. It didn't even take long. And I could see the Maryland Penitentiary from my window. I seen people getting stabbed out in the yard.

[00:26:33] Speaker: I actually seen fights in the yard, people getting stabbed in the yard. And this was what I had to face as a child, wondering what's going to happen to me when I get there. So I had to grow up real fast.

[00:26:49] Speaker: I'd say, and I want to keep asking you about it, but what I want to bring up now is just a little bit of the present day is because with doing a little bit of research to be able to talk with you now, there are some folks out there that because of this settlement, the city is trying to make right what was wrong to you and to your two friends at the time all those years ago, 40 years ago,

[00:27:13] Speaker: And people aren't thrilled that now they're having to try to make amends, right, and make a settlement with you. It's the largest settlement in Maryland and Baltimore's history. It was $48 million of taxpayers' money, which, you know, you split it up, minus attorney fees. It's not as much as it sounds. And yet,

[00:27:34] Speaker: it's all you have to show for all the years that you didn't have choice, you didn't have any opportunity. And it's just, so as we talk about what your experiences were like as a teenager, 20, 30, 40 year old, I just wanna, that's what I think about is just like what was taken from you and what little is able to be given to you and how hard you had to fight to get anything.

[00:27:59] Speaker: Because no one wanted to do anything for you. They wanted to help me. Like I wrote everybody like and but I didn't let it, you know, discourage me to continue to keep on trying to find help. I wrote pro bono lawyers and everything. And they said they couldn't help me.

[00:28:20] Speaker: I wrote out of state to the innocent projects. It couldn't help me. Then just one day, my ex came back into my life before all this stuff happened. She helped me in a sense with calling the attorney general for me.

[00:28:43] Speaker: to getting a private investigator. She helped me with that and get a private investigator. And that's something that I was distressing at that time, that I might need a private investigator to look into the witnesses, to go back and talk to the witnesses. And he did that. I don't know within them,

[00:29:07] Speaker: to basically do the right thing this time. And I can just imagine what they was going through knowing that they put somebody in prison. You're talking about the people that ended up testifying as 14-year-olds against you. Right, knowing that they put somebody in prison for something they didn't do. But yeah, it's like, and I know that that stuff mess with their lives.

[00:29:35] Speaker: right now, you know. Have they ever spoken to you directly? No, they basically told our lawyers, you know, Ron Bishop and Edward Capers, you know, they apologized, you know what I mean? We're supposed to be seeing Ron Bishop one day. He want to see us, you know, we want to sit down and talk to him. And I just want to let him know, like,

[00:30:03] Speaker: Man, I don't I don't have no animosity towards you. What they did to you, they did us. Yeah. You're a victim as well. You as a victim just as well as we were. So I give you I give you a lot of credit because I I don't know since I've met you and I heard your story, it's it it amazes me how even keel and kind hearted you are and how on I don't know.

[00:30:26] Speaker: just the amount of revenge I would want. And maybe you felt that at times and you worked through it. Yeah. I worked through all that stuff. It was just, it's just like, you know, once you, once you spiritually get a connection with God,

[00:30:42] Speaker: here, open your eyes. But during the whole time that I was incarcerated, God had favor on me. It was just the little things that I knew that this right here don't play a part in certain things that was happening in my life, even while I was there. It had to be God. Don't get me wrong, I had my ups and downs.

[00:31:03] Speaker: every day, reliving the same thing over and over again with people's personalities and the way that they are. You got to try some kind of way, man, figure out how to get around that type of stuff so it don't affect you or who you are. In the Maryland Penitentiary, you can get lost. You can really get lost in there. You can even lose your mind.

[00:31:30] Speaker: Am I going to die here? Am I going to get stuck in here? Because you can get stuck in there too. Try to protect yourself. Like anything, it could be the little's my new thing. Like just words. Just words alone to get you killed. Own somebody for what? 69 cent? A dollar?

[00:31:53] Speaker: You get killed for a dollar, man. You get killed for a cigarette, a roll of toilet paper, anything, man. I'm telling you, it's crazy. It seemed like to me while I was in there that I was

[00:32:10] Speaker: The same I was the same one in there Help me understand what it's actually like To be in prison. I I haven't been thank God but people people things it like people think that because certain things that they may Give to the guys why they incarcerated them guys don't don't get it misunderstood because Every day that an individual is behind that wall. He is suffering

[00:32:38] Speaker: For whatever he did, he is suffering day and day and night. He's suffering. When he wake up in the morning, he got to see that bar. He got to see them bars right there in front of him. Do we reflect on the things that he did? Some of them do.

[00:32:55] Speaker: Why in this country do you think, having been there, not everyone is wrongfully convicted? Like that's not, you know, your experience is hopefully an outlier. That's true, though. That's true. Everybody is not innocent. Not everybody is innocent. You got some real killers in there.

[00:33:13] Speaker: For real, they're real killers. But not everybody in there is a killer. We have everybody locked up in prison. We have more people in prison than anywhere in the world. But still, people change, though. Yeah. I seen that with my eyes, my own eyes. A real killer changed. I just seen real killers change for the better for themselves. Like, really, they educated and they're trying to get back in society. They want to be forgiven. Yeah.

[00:33:41] Speaker: Have you ever seen anyone actually been able to get out and get through that process or are they still stuck in there? I've seen a lot like dudes that thought they would never, ever, ever get on the street. They home now. Is they coming back to prison?

[00:33:57] Speaker: They be a fool. These guys ain't coming back to prison. They out here doing the right thing. Like, for real. And so I'm just curious as someone that has it, like, what is it like, I was asking you before, like, what is a day like? What's a traditional day like? Do you have a certain wake up time and what's you get to exercise? Is it is it? I assume it's very routine based, right? It's very well, I'm always up at five anyway, like in the morning.

[00:34:23] Speaker: I'm always up. Why everybody sleep? I'm up. Yeah, so it's like So there's a certain lights on time

[00:34:30] Speaker: Now they don't have that, like, lights out, lights on. That's what you think. I only see you see in the movies. That's back in the day, like, in the 40s and, well, in the 70s, maybe. In the 70s, yeah. It was a little bit going on. There was a lot of racist stuff going on back then in the prison system. It still is, really. I was going to say, it is. It was really terrible, even really, back in them days, in the 70s. Just imagine, you know, I done seen a lot of people die in prison.

[00:35:02] Speaker: It's like ghosts is walking around in these prison systems, like for real. It's so many people didn't die. People don't know nothing about this, like literally. People die every day in prison. If they sick, they not taking, they ready for you to die in prison. They ain't not gonna give you no help. I wanna say to these kids out here today, you go to prison, man, you know, you get sick,

[00:35:31] Speaker: They're ready for you to die in prison, man, for them to help you to spend money and get you well. They're not going to do that. All that money they make, or they say that they give to take care of your inmate.

[00:35:45] Speaker: They don't see none of that. They don't see none of that. The prison is dirty. The food is nasty. Compared to when I first came to prison, they was feeling good at first. Then they start calling themselves saving the state money. And while they're in this prison system, these individuals are putting money in their pocket.

[00:36:06] Speaker: You know, they riding around in Mercedes and- What individuals? The people that work in this system. Yeah. They literally get bonuses for saving the state money. I heard, and maybe this is wrong, but I heard that it's around $70,000 a year to keep someone in prison. Something like that, yeah. Is that what you've heard? Something like that. It's something like that. Yeah.

[00:36:30] Speaker: What 70,000? And he's still not getting anything that these people saying that if the people was to walk, whenever they have these administrators or whatever, or the congressional administrators coming in these prisons, they straighten up. They start cleaning up. They start cleaning up and all that type of stuff, putting their little tires on the uniform and all that stuff. These officers don't care about nobody. They don't care about nobody.

[00:36:59] Speaker: Most of them do, but majority of them, they don't. They don't care. They look down on you because you're incarcerated. They don't look at you. Most of them don't look at you as a human being that made a mistake. And you're looking at people that look just like you. It's crazy.

[00:37:19] Speaker: I wanna know some experiences that shaped your life that while you were in prison. Was there anything that you, that just keeps you up at night? Is there anything that you remember that stands out over all those years?

[00:37:34] Speaker: Well, I'm always going to have trauma. It comes out me in different ways, like, you know, all the stuff that I've been holding in, like, you know, the anger and stuff like people will make you angry in there. And if you respond, see, I had I had tap on my emotions like men have. We say we don't have emotion, but we do.

[00:37:58] Speaker: you know it can be sad or it can be angry. But that angry part of a man, the other side of a man, like a man should have control of that. He should have control of that. And I did. Like basically I did. Now don't get me wrong, like many other nights I'd have cried

[00:38:19] Speaker: I didn't cry because you say to yourself, it make you feel less than a man, but no, no. It don't make you less of a man if you don't respond to the ignorance of somebody else.

[00:38:35] Speaker: Because somebody, he gonna mess with somebody that's just as ignorant as he is, and he gonna get dealt with. I mean, are there cliques in prison? Because I always hear there's cliques. I always hear it's really racial. Like everybody, you have the Hispanic group, you have the white group, the black group. Is that the way that... No, that's like...

[00:38:56] Speaker: This new generation that's coming into prison, I don't know what's going on with this gang stuff. Like, it's like the most ignorance thing I ever saw in my life. Like, I saw people falling behind just one man. How can you follow behind somebody, falling behind a man, giving, telling you what to do? Not the right things, but the wrong things to do. That don't make sense. Like, is you crazy?

[00:39:25] Speaker: See, it's not as racial, it's just more like gang-based. Is that what you're saying? In certain prisons, like when I was out of Cumberland, most of the corrections officers up there, they racist.

[00:39:37] Speaker: for anybody that's Caucasian, white, whatever, they get it easy. If you go into prisons where they got gangs, they separate it. That's all they do. That's all they know how to do. So they never mix people anyway. If there's gangs, they basically say, which gang are you on and just put you over there? I mean, it's like you have your sets, you know?

[00:40:05] Speaker: I don't understand that stuff, man. It was just. Did you ever have to join for protection? Did you ever have to go with a group ever to say that's the way I'm going to survive? No, that's it. No, man, like, you know, you know, the older guys, they told me, you know, the right thing to do and the wrong things not to do while I was in prison. Like they told me, look, just be yourself.

[00:40:30] Speaker: I remember I met a guy named Dennis Wise, and he told me, I met him on Lager. He said, whatever you do, man, because I seen him in a cell, he had a TV. All he did was read all the time. And he said, just concentrate on yourself. Like, try to go to school and try to get into the law library.

[00:40:57] Speaker: and try to get out of prison. Just be yourself and you ain't gonna have no problems on nobody. And that's how I ever been. I always been myself. Anybody tell you, they say, even till the day, dudes will say to me, they say, man, it was like a pleasure, man, meeting you. You the realest person I ever met in my life.

[00:41:20] Speaker: Even far as being friends with you, you always been the same with me. You never switched up on me. Your personality and all that has always been the same. I had good days and I had bad days. The good days were with the dudes that I was around all the time. So what's a good day? Is a good day like shooting basketball? What would you do? What's a good day? I never played basketball.

[00:41:46] Speaker: So what do you do? I mean, what's a good day? I mean, I've worked out. Yeah. And, you know, you do certain things like. They had things for you to do and stuff like programs and stuff. And, you know, to do is I mess with they was in programs trying to balance out and, you know, we'll go kick the bowl bowl all the time, talk.

[00:42:07] Speaker: Workout together, you know all type of stuff like you know, yeah, that's That's something so I mean, did you have anything because I remember last time we tried to do this podcast You were describing a scene which I think about from time to time just imagining you in that situation where you had somebody in a cell Just getting stabbed and stabbed and stabbed

[00:42:31] Speaker: And I just think about how in the hell that would be. You sipping on that? He just took a sip of something, I poured him. That'll get you there. But it's perfect timing to have that happen to you, right? As I talk about that, because that was just the wildest story I've ever heard to think that's something you had to experience. Yeah. I mean, tell me about that story. Like that's the craziest thing.

[00:42:58] Speaker: Well, I just was, I was in a cut and it was this guy, I think his name was Butt Butt. They call him Butt Butt. Butt Butt. They call him Butt Butt, I don't know why they call him that. Yeah, but I guess it was a street name or something, but he was a mole.

[00:43:20] Speaker: He was a Marsh American. And he did something to a guy, I think he stole his clothes. And this white guy stabbed him, caught him while he was in the bed. He stabbed him, I don't know how many times. So I'm standing downstairs talking to the officer in front of the shack, whatever, in the building.

[00:43:51] Speaker: And I looks up and he walking down the steps from all the way from his head to his toes, his drawers, everything. He was covered in blood.

[00:44:03] Speaker: The woman screamed, and I automatically just jumped to grab me and the dude named Billy. And I grabbed the thing off the Lord, the medical thing, whatever, the bed, whatever, you carry them on. And we laid them on the scratchy thing.

[00:44:28] Speaker: Ran him down to the hospital and why he was the big sheep kind of thing Yeah, you know like the gurney did a gurney. We took him on a gurney. He was like telling me He said chestnut man. He hit me in my mouth with it like Like he literally got stabbed in the mouth What he had stabbed with you know, it was a knife. How do you get a knife in prison?

[00:44:51] Speaker: They make knives, they make knives. Yeah, they make knives in prison. The dude, I actually saw the man level a kidney or something, right? And I was just telling him, like, man, just, I said, man, just keep talking, just keep talking, man. And we was rolling, the female, the female, she was so hysterical that she said all this blood, she felt, she tried to open up the gates, she fell down on the ground.

[00:45:22] Speaker: But he made it though, you know, through all that. That same cell that he got stabbed in, years later, I moved in that cell. It just so happened. I said, you know, I cleaned the cell up, right? I said, you know what, let me pull this bunk away from the wall. I pulled the bunk away from the wall and it was a big dark line going straight across like that number blood.

[00:45:52] Speaker: That blood been there for, I don't know how, for years. That same blood. That's crazy. That's crazy.

[00:46:04] Speaker: I guess what are you going to do now? You managed to get yourself out. I remember you were telling me it was just sheer deterrence on your part to get out of that situation, to write all the letters, to do everything you can on behalf of yourself. You were the main person to get your friends out too. You were the one advocating, never giving up the entire time. How did you manage to do it?

[00:46:29] Speaker: Like I said, the people that was around me always encouraging me to try to get out better myself.

[00:46:42] Speaker: me going to school, trying to get my GED, I couldn't even concentrate on getting my GED because I was determined trying to learn or find something in my case. So it was like, I couldn't even get it. Now, a lot, I've seen a lot of dudes in prison get their GED, they pay for their GED. And yeah, I could have did that, but I didn't. What do you mean, pay for it? I mean, you pay, get that GED.

[00:47:10] Speaker: I mean, you didn't really earn it. You just pay for it. Yeah. Yeah. The dude, they had an inmate doing the, um, the test is back then. Oh yeah. So, yeah. So like, yeah. Um, I didn't do that though. I didn't do it. No. I said, no, I'm not doing that because I seen dudes that can barely read. Got a GED. Yeah. Like they can read, couldn't even read.

[00:47:37] Speaker: I couldn't even read and write when I first got incarcerated. I couldn't even read and write. Read a little bit, but now I know. 16 year old without the schools didn't help you enough to read and write? No. That's crazy. No, they didn't. Do you think your situation would have been different if you were in a different part?

[00:47:54] Speaker: A town if you were born somewhere different if your circumstances are slightly bigger I think your situation is just not one that is likely to happen unless you're in that specific area in your specific situation I just think the story

[00:48:10] Speaker: It's just so it's just i just think of my own children it's like the likelihood of that scenario playing out for my kids i would think is so much lower is it's really crazy because in these neighborhoods today they like prison yeah i look at it and it do remind me of prison it's like.

[00:48:29] Speaker: When I first came home and I drove with my brother, drove me like somewhere like downtown and I was just seeing how how everything had changed. And the people, you know, you see all the people on the street, people addicted to drugs, homeless, homeless people. Roman Street. I really see a lot of that growing up to to the day.

[00:48:58] Speaker: Oh, it's everywhere now. It's everywhere now. And it's not just Baltimore. Yeah, it's not. It's everywhere. It's everywhere, man, like in Philly. They said it's like you walking down, it's just drug addicts and this dope fans walking up and down the street all around everywhere, laying in the street, homeless people just in the street, like in California, in certain parts of California.

[00:49:23] Speaker: Well you, now you're out of prison and you're, I don't want to go into too many details on the podcast, but what you're dealing with now that you have a settlement after all of this and people can be jealous of you or hate on you. Hate on you. And it's affecting your life in a really meaningful way. Yeah, cause people don't know me. I help people, I help, like I said, I help people in prison.

[00:49:47] Speaker: like people that lost their mind actually lost their mind and I done brought these individuals back.

[00:49:54] Speaker: like just little things like I did like get a haircut for him. I helped somebody pay somebody to cut their hair or go to the property room and say, I got a dude that needs some state jeans or whatever and get them fresh for a day. I don't know how long it take. He might be like that for a whole week.

[00:50:19] Speaker: And then go back into that stage. Right. But one thing I could tell you about that individual that he never forgot what I did for him. Yeah. Like forever. And I do that even today on the street. Like I help homeless people out. Like I don't you know, I don't discriminate. I help anybody out. But I say. I can't do that all the time, neither. I can't do that all the time. I'm like.

[00:50:50] Speaker: It's crazy. People actually think that because you know an individual, whatever, that you're supposed to look out for them.

[00:51:03] Speaker: I can look out for you in different ways, in different ways. But I just, like I said, I don't want nobody to look at the money that these people gave us because that's never enough. That's not enough. You could offer me that money today and I could switch shoes with you and do that again and I would never take it. Yeah.

[00:51:26] Speaker: It's one thing if you did something to earn it, but you didn't do anything and something did it to you. It's just, it's the craziest situation. And then I'm reading articles before I started the podcast and there's people in the city that are describing how many others settlements are probably going to happen. You've set a precedent, not just here, but all over the country. The case that you had, the precedent that it's created,

[00:51:53] Speaker: the amount of injustices that have happened, there's not enough money to make this right. There's not enough people that'll ever have an opportunity to do what happened to you. You are a one out of a million opportunity to even be sitting here having this discussion, drinking a whiskey on a podcast. Just the idea that you're one in a million. It's crazy.

[00:52:18] Speaker: Every day, man, it's been a blessing to me. I don't take nothing for granted. I'm still from day one, the stage of when I came home from day one. I'm still at that stage. I'm looking at flowers and the beauty of things. I want to say Marilyn Mosby,

[00:52:40] Speaker: She didn't help a lot of people, like really helped a lot of people. And I'm just looking at her situation, you know, and what they doing to her is totally wrong. I don't like it. They can say whatever they can say about it, but I see that this woman was trying to change the scenario.

[00:53:03] Speaker: And that's why they got rid of her because she was trying to change the scenario. Like, you know, the overcrowdness in prison. Like you got dudes been locked up ever since the fifties. Come on, man. An old man. I know a man named Mr. Calang. He go to service. Every time he get up on that poland, he cry. He talk about how long he'd been in prison. Like he said, man, he want to go home. He want to go home.

[00:53:33] Speaker: Like, literally want to go home. He's not that person. Whatever. He done the time for that stuff. And that's what I'm saying. And they mad at Marilyn Boseby because she wasn't on the team. She wasn't on the team. So they got rid of.

[00:53:53] Speaker: You know, they come up with this stuff. And as you see, they're doing the same thing. You can't even trust some of these politicians. You can't even trust them because they backstab. They stab each other in the back. I'll bring you up to speed on what it's like out here for all these years. It's been that way. We can't trust a lot of people. If you sound like a conspiracy theorist when you start talking about it. Yeah, it's crazy, man. The truth is you can't really trust a lot of what we read and what we see on TV. I heard somebody say,

[00:54:21] Speaker: a Republican and a Democrat. I said a Republican is a Democrat and a Democrat is a Republican. I said, you hear them all the time, they keep announcing the same thing over to y'all. Get it, get it, get it. They ain't getting it right. It's something that they ain't doing right. They say the same thing every year. Even here in Baltimore, the murder rate is 300. It's been 300. It's been over 300.

[00:54:50] Speaker: These are stuff that they don't know, like, really. You keep saying the same thing every year, every year. And not a whole lot changes. And then it's not nothing changing. Nothing is changing. Well, I'll tell you what, the change that you're going to do, it sounds like what I admire about you is that somebody who's received a settlement that's been in the situation you're in could easily take that settlement and it could just disappear. They could spend it on junk and be broke the next year.

[00:55:19] Speaker: I commend you. That's how we've met is that you're going to not just build for yourself. Now you have a daughter, six month old daughter, right? Yeah. And you have a beautiful partner named Von and you got like, you're building something and you're thinking of the future and you're thinking to your daughter and you're going to invest and you're going to have income stream. It's well beyond. It's not

[00:55:42] Speaker: It's just remarkable that that's the way that you think. And I don't know if everyone would think that way. Most people wouldn't think of it that way. They think about now, here now, right now, it's right now, it's right now. But what you're going to do about the future, like, you know, I looked out for my little nephew. He just turned 18.

[00:56:05] Speaker: And I'm letting them, I told them, I said, look, I said, what I gave you is like, not for right now. It's about what you can build off of that.

[00:56:16] Speaker: I want you to build off of what I gave you. And by the time you like 25 or 30 years old, man, you can say my uncle gave you a seed. You can see it. I see exactly what my uncle was telling me. Well, I just see in you the ability to, now that the settlement is done and you're able to talk more freely, it's like you're gonna be in a position to change other people's lives. You can use this not just to help yourself, but help others.

[00:56:44] Speaker: And I believe that's what you're gonna do. I think that's what maybe if you talk about God's will and on all your That might be one of the reasons you're here. Yeah, that's one of my purposes because I had that purpose in prison like it, you know Talking the God I always pray to God though He know what's on my mind but he also know that I'm going through stuff right now too like and I'm just asking God like, you know to

[00:57:11] Speaker: you know the same way that he guided me and then they got me out here. Are you talking to anybody? Do you have anybody to speak to? Do they give you a therapist? Anybody at all? Like any? I mean I'm supposed to be eventually talk to someone but it's I think it's just me really. You've been out for three or four years now. Yeah. You haven't had anything. I have therapy. I have therapy and I've had nothing to talk about.

[00:57:35] Speaker: I think you might want to do that, I think, to work through it. You're really pretty put well together, but I can't imagine. Yeah, because like I say, my trauma is different from my co-definished trauma and anybody else's. I can't compare my trauma with theirs, and they can't compare their trauma with mine's. So it's like, a friend of mine, he's been locked up for 40 years, he's free now.

[00:58:02] Speaker: He just told me he had an episode the other day. He cried. And I told him, I said, yeah, man, it's going to come out to you in all different type of ways. I said, you might look at a picture of yourself or you listen to a song that reminds you of yourself. It's a song.

[00:58:25] Speaker: I forgot the name of it, but every time I hear it, it's talking about me. It was talking about me, about how everyone let me down and how they had me as an animal and I'm not that person and whatever, and the strengths that I had the whole time that I was in there fighting, trying to get out.

[00:58:48] Speaker: And it made me cry when I was in Puerto Rico and I couldn't stop crying. I was trying to hold it. I was trying to fight it. I couldn't fight it. I couldn't fight it. I was just sitting there, you know, sitting there while my girl was in there with the baby and I'm sitting there just crying. My tears, it couldn't stop and I had to go in.

[00:59:08] Speaker: And that's what I was telling him. I said, man, it's going to come out to you in all kinds of ways. Like I said, it came out me in prison like that. And I thought I was going crazy.

[00:59:20] Speaker: But, you know, you put any human being in a condition like that, it's liable. It can it can mess that person up. I just think if I was if the shoes were reversed and I was in that situation, I really don't think I I don't know if I could be as strong as the way that you are. It's not just here sitting in this conversation. I've known you now for a long time. It's

[00:59:47] Speaker: You know, I don't know, I don't think it's possible for me. And I don't think a lot of people could. I heard a lot of people say, like, my mom, she should say it. She should come and see me. And she said, boy, I don't know how you doing. And I said, me neither, but I said, man, I'm around a lot of good people. And I said, one thing for sure, man, I'm not going to do anything.

[01:00:14] Speaker: to make me get stuck in here or somebody to kill me. I literally almost lost my life in prison at 17. How'd you almost die?

[01:00:32] Speaker: Somebody thought I was involved in something, and one thing led to another, and I got hit in the face with a push burn. It fractured. I ain't got a detached retina. Only got half vision in my left eye. I had a jaw broke. My nose broke. I had wide up hair getting my teeth wide and all that type of stuff. It chipped the bone right here on the side of my eye there.

[01:01:01] Speaker: And my cheekbone, I think I got like something up here. I could feel it sometimes like, cause my cheekbone was damaged and I think they got something like a little rod or something, maybe up in there or something. I could feel it. Wow.

[01:01:21] Speaker: Well, all I can say is you have one hell of a story and I appreciate you sharing it with me. And I wish I could say that there's no way this is going to happen to anybody else. Like good thing we've gotten this past us, but I don't think I'm that naive. And I don't think, you know, I just read the report about how they're going to be looking into the system to verify that this never happens again. I mean, what do you think about that? I think that's going to

[01:01:46] Speaker: The only way that this ain't going to happen again is that they got to have a police reform where some of these police, they just like us. They don't realize that when they look at the badge and then the authority that they have over people.

[01:02:04] Speaker: And then they listened to these old, old police officers that had been in the system. They done some things, too. It just hadn't been brought up yet. Right. You know, you see people they keep hiring these chief polices and all that, saying that this police is he qualified for this. But you don't. How long has he been in the system?

[01:02:31] Speaker: 40, 50 years, 50 years ago, they was busting and turning black people up back and 50 years ago, 40 years ago, you do whatever you want to people. So you mean to tell me 40 today and 2023 that you ain't never, you ain't never did nothing like that in your life. Most of these officers in there now, they're keeping their,

[01:02:54] Speaker: Cause quiet, they got a code of ethics in the police department and anyone that goes against them.

[01:03:02] Speaker: you gonna have a problem. Well, it's not easy to be a cop these days. It's not easy. Cause there are good, there's lots of good cops. I'm not saying that they're not, they're all good. But there's some bad ones too. There are a lot of bad ones. Yup. There are a lot of bad ones. A lot of bad ones. Like whatever happened to the officer friendly that I knew, like growing up, the officer that walked in the neighborhood that you knew, right? These officers, you don't know none of these officers. These officers don't talk to you.

[01:03:29] Speaker: They look down on you coming through the hood, walking through the hood. They look down on you like you're a piece of nothing. Well, they're very much against each other. It's like adversaries. It's not like they're part of the community. It's very much adversarial. But they have their hands tied too because it's not good. I know city cops. I sell them houses.

[01:03:46] Speaker: And they're screwed too. They can't defend themselves half the time. A lot of them come in really good intentioned. I know a bunch of them. They get hardened after a while. Because life is miserable. It's not easy for them. And I know a lot of good cops. I have two brother-in-laws that are police detectives. And they're good people. These are not the bad ones. And yet they both are going to be on the way out the door to retire because of all the changes that have come in.

[01:04:11] Speaker: And they call it reform, but I don't know if it's much reform. It's more like cover your ass and, you know, and make their jobs harder. So I don't know what the answer is. It's like everything else in the world that's falling apart. It's like you don't really have a solution other than I can. Yeah, I think that somewhere that

[01:04:36] Speaker: The people, I mean, the police should just go in on and prove us wrong. Prove us wrong.

[01:04:49] Speaker: Show us that you're for us, not against us. You're going to have people that's going to be doing things, but at the same time, look at the other people that are not doing these type of things.

[01:05:09] Speaker: make it so that you go into these communities looking at people like any other people that you be around. Like literally, like you sit down with your people, wherever you live at, same way, same way. You got friends, same way, man. Go into these neighborhoods and talk to some of these people.

[01:05:34] Speaker: talk to some of them kids, go into your trunk and pour some bats and baseball gloves out there, man, and give them to them kids. That's what they used to do, man, when I was growing up. I know a man named Mr. Roy, I don't know if he's still alive, but I'll give a shout out to him. If he's still alive and he remember me,

[01:05:58] Speaker: As a kid, he used to give me a whole duffel bag, like maybe like six, seven bats and gloves and baseballs. They play with your friends, go out there. Go out there. He said, man, just go out there. And I used to go in all the neighborhoods and gather up kids. And we used to play right there in front of Highland Park playground right there where the baseball fell at. And old people used to love seeing us play baseball. Sure.

[01:06:26] Speaker: You don't see that no more. Not so much. It's not like that no more. They're graduating to steal cars and if you can't get it, take it. That ain't the way, that ain't the way. What if that was your mother?

[01:06:43] Speaker: What was that was your mother or your sister that you threw on the ground and somebody smacked her and busted her in the head for what? What? $100? You go into prison for $100. You kill somebody for $100, $200, you're assaulted. You go into prison for the rest of your life. You go into a store and you rob somebody and you get $1,500. You go into prison for the rest of your life.

[01:07:12] Speaker: for 15 measly $100. Not even some of them in their nail for $200 for the rest of your life. You mean to tell me you robbed somebody for $200 and killed them, and now you're in prison. Your life is over.

[01:07:30] Speaker: Well, I can tell you somebody out there is going to hear you. And it might help influence them to not go down that path. It's not a game. It's not a game like that's the power that you have at this point. And you actually can someone's going to listen to you and actually you might affect somebody. And they benefit and offer offer what you this ignorance that you're doing. They benefit and offer this stuff.

[01:07:51] Speaker: like millions and trillions of dollars are put into these systems and nothing is coming out of it good. If you go into any other country, they don't they don't hold nobody down or no life sentence like that. They got programs to rehabilitate these men and they get back out there in society and do the right thing. Like they don't be holding nobody. Anybody in any country will tell you we don't we don't do that.

[01:08:19] Speaker: America's got a crazy system. They're capitalizing off everything in here in America. Even off of the stuff that our parents sent money into prison. They're capitalizing off of the money my parents sent off for commissary and everything I gotta buy. I gotta buy my TV from them now. At one time, my parents was able to buy a TV and clothe me while I was in prison.

[01:08:47] Speaker: They took that away and now they doing that themselves. The money is going in their pocket, right? It's going in their pocket. They holding bodies for money.

[01:08:58] Speaker: That's all they doing. They holding bodies for money, man. Well, all I can say is you've highlighted a lot of this. I think your story and quite frankly, not just the story, but the amount of money the city is paying, not just for you, but some of the people you know that are now going to get their settlements next. Yeah. I'm telling you, you make people pay.

[01:09:17] Speaker: It's going to cost them dearly, but there's a chance it might influence them enough to where they do something because they can't keep writing these checks. Nick Mosby already spoke on it.

[01:09:31] Speaker: And he going to do it. I'm quite sure he going to do it because he going to make sure that that law is changed, that that the law is changed, that these police officers that's doing this stuff, the people that that is that is coming out of their pension or their pension.

[01:09:47] Speaker: Because right now the money for all the wrongdoing that's been done is coming out of the taxpayers money out of roads and all this other stuff. Yeah. And the city is accountability for the people that actually did it. Yeah. The city is tore up. You ride down the street, potholes everywhere, messing your car up. And they're not paying for these cars that get messed up, but they'll keep patching stuff, keep patching, putting patches on stuff like literally. That's what Baltimore is about, patching stuff.

[01:10:16] Speaker: It's about patching. I can talk to you for three days. It's already been an hour and a half. I don't want to keep you forever. I just want to end it on a positive note. Just what are you looking forward to? What's the next chapter?

[01:10:27] Speaker: You know, I'm focusing on myself and my family, my girl, my baby, my little baby girl. And like, she getting big real fast. Yeah, it happens, man. She's beautiful, by the way. Yeah, I know, man. And I'm gonna raise my daughter well. Like, she ain't gonna be wearing, like these little girls out here in there growing up fast, they is hot in their high parts. They got their daughters on TikTok.

[01:10:55] Speaker: What is wrong, what's wrong with these, they must take that stuff cute. They got perverts. Oh yeah. Child molestas and all kinds of grown men looking at your daughter, like literally looking at your daughter. You talk about competition. She doing a dance competition. Your daughter's not gonna do any competition. My daughter ain't doing none of that. My daughter ain't doing none of that. She ain't wearing no fake eyelashes. She ain't wearing no fake hair, none of that.

[01:11:22] Speaker: Get it right. Women, women don't take care of themselves these days like like women did back to the water. Curler, curler hair took time to do the nails and make up and whatever. They is just out in space right now. Yeah, these women are out of space right now. I don't get it. Like you can't even speak to some of these women say hi.

[01:11:47] Speaker: You can't speak to nobody and say hi no more without getting a response. Say, hello, how you doing today? You can't even get that. Like, it's crazy. I do stuff for people. It just comes to me. God put it on my heart. I could be in a line, a grocery line, man, and I'll pay for somebody's stuff.

[01:12:06] Speaker: I did it for an elderly woman. She started crying, like literally started crying. Yeah. Like, nobody has ever done this for me. Oh, my God. Like, yeah. Well, all I can say, I'll wrap it up on that on that note. I'm grateful to have met you and I'm thankful that you've shared your story with me. I'm looking forward to working with you for years to come and yeah. And seeing your little girl grow up and see in the next chapter and.

[01:12:32] Speaker: You know, it's nothing but, I hope, right? Positive things from here on out, and I think you're gonna make an impact. I really do. I truly think you're gonna make an impact in a positive way. And so, that's it. Thank you for joining me. I'll give you a little cheers on the way out. Cheers. I think I'm gonna take a little time with this one this time. And it almost took me out. All right, well, that's it, guys. Thank you for joining us on the podcast.